When does Boeheim start feeling heat?
Syracuse went out with a bang this year, ending their dramatic NCAA Tournament hopes in excruciating fashion, at the barrage of threes from Villanova. But chin up, Orange fans, you guys are almost a lock for the NIT. This marks the 2nd consecutive year that Syracuse has failed to make the NCAA Tournament, and only the second such time in the Jim Boeheim era (the other being '81-'82), when Jim was in his 6th and 7th year at the school.
Now, Boeheim guided Syracuse to the title in the 2002-2003 season on the wings of fabulous freshman Carmello Anthony, but the results since then have been somewhat discouraging. So, the question is, even with his .740 winning percentage in 32 years at the school, when does he get to feel some heat? Continually bringing in top flight talent without achieving top flight results. Just look at the track record after winning the championship in '03, coincidentally the last time they were relevant during the Big East Regular season, the numbers don't lie.
Twice that team tied for 3rd in the Big East, West division, and those years were consecutive after winning the championship, and after that it's a downright spiral: 9th, 5th, and 9th. In fact, barring a miraculous run in the Big East Tournament in '06, they would have missed the NCAA Tourney berth three consecutive years. Hell, they wouldn't have won one fucking game! Granted, they were kind of robbed last year. But that doesn't excuse finishing at the bottom half of your division three years in a row. It seems that expectations were lowered so much, that students stormed the floor after a win over not-that-highly-ranked Georgetown last year.
The man is a Hall of Famer (2005), brought a championship to the school, is an alum, but shouldn't he start getting the Joe Paterno treatment here in the next couple of years if this trend continues? When you go to Syracuse, all you've got to boast about is that hiney-toucher Tirico and your basketball achievements; certainly not football since the 44's were retired.
It seems they figured out "the Zone" Jimmy B, so it's move up, or move out.
Syracuse loses to Villanova [ESPN]
Syracuse basketball results [Wiki]
Jim Boeheim [Wiki]
21 comments:
Interesting article. Just to set the stage, I'm not a fan of Boeheim. I just don't think he's that good of a coach, so my selective comments are biased that way..
According to the link showing Syracuse's records, in their first two years, without a head coach, they played .500 ball. In their last three years in Conference play (I told you I was selective)
their record was 26-24 or .520 ball. Sooo, in conference play, they are getting what value from JB?
Ken
Yeah, that's exactly what I mean. You're looking at a team that has been mostly irrelevant in the Big East race pretty much since their title in '03.
And people bring up the Big East Tournament (which they've won twice since). Yeah, I'd rather look at a body of work (regular season) than getting lucky for 4 games (tournament). I hate conference tournaments.
SU and Boeheim will be just fine. This team will be one year older (no seniors) and much more loaded (Devo and Rautins back from injuries) next year. Barring some freaky injuries like this year, SU will be back to form in '09 and we can all lay off one of the Top 5 active coaches in all of college basketball.
Whoever wrote this is one of those people who apparently thinks every coach has to win their conference every year and make it to a final four every three years. This is absolutely rediculous. Where do you take into account of injuries this year? Where do you take into account theres absolutely no acceptable argument as to how they missed out on the tourney last year. And since when are 2 conference titles over the last 5 years irrelivant? A lot of people might consider this Boeheim's BEST coaching performance given the circumstances. Are you going to fire Roy Williams if he doesn't win the title this year? Are you going to run Coach K if they don't get a 1 seed? seriously...
Hermano, or is it Hypocritico. You say to look at a whole body of work rather than 4 lucky games? How about you look at 30 years as opposed to just the last 2. Dumb.
Please only write about things when you know what you're talking about.
Yes, I'm bias. But I'm also not stupid.
By the way... Not-so-highly ranked Georgetown last year? Um... they were ranked 8th. And they are syracuse's biggest and oldest rival, and it was senior night. SO a celebration wasn't called for because their program was in such shambles as you have painted it. PLEASE, when you don't know what you're talking about you shouldn't write it down.
Oh, phew, good thing I got straightened out by a completely level-headed unbiased person. And here I go, thinking that I had my numbers wrong, thank you.
Let's review. The two titles that you refer to are Big East Tournament titles, which are as irrelevant as can be, because they mean nothing. It means getting hot and lucky for 4 games in a row, most of which were last-minute outcomes. What I'm referring to is the actual body of work over the entire season in the Big East, in which the last 3 years, Orange have been almost completely, if not completely irrelevant, finishing 5th, and twice 9th.
And I'm not saying that a coach has to win the league every year, but he has to stay relevant in the discussion. You bring up Roy Williams, if memory serves, we're talking about a guy who's been in the mix for both the Conference title, and national title his entire time there - and his entire time at Kansas.
I like the Hypocrito comment, but it can also apply to you, see: Big East tournament titles, instead of regular season titles. As far as the body of work, you're right, the body of work is excellent, in which I specifically state, since the title. You can't argue with the results that have been achieved since '03. Also, I'm not calling for his firing, I'm just saying that this downward trend shouldn't be at all exciting for fans such as yourselves.
By the way, injuries? Devo? Are you serious? If he's the key to your success, you've got some more problems on your team.
Last year they won 10 games in conference and were snubbed.
This year they played most of the season with their entire starting back court injured - plus a point guard who started 27 games last year quit the team.
They had no depth, no experience and still won 19 games.
As far as dogging Devendorf, he was a McDonald's All American, averaging 17 points and over 30 minutes a game before he was injured. Losing 6'4" guards who can get rim on anyone and make the 3 is a significant loss - you'd know that if you actually watched basketball.
You can pin last year's underachieving senior class on Boeheim if you'd like, but this year, given what he had to work with, he did a good job.
I'll give you last year, they were snubbed for the NCAA, and I mentioned that in the article.
But, by your logic, you have TWO more starting McDonald's All Americans. If you want to talk about last years underachieving senior class, then how about this year's underachieving freshman class. How many other teams brought in 2 McDonald's All Americans.
There's predictions, and there's reality. Is there something to the fact that there have been multiple underachieving McDonald's All American players on the roster?
OK, let's take a step back here - the point about this year is that due to injuries, they had seven scholarship players available - seven. Name another team in the country that played in a major conference that short handed. You can't, because there isn't one.
In terms of calling their McDonald's AA underachieving, that's flat out ignorance.
Donte Greene averaged 17 points and 7 boards a game. He was second team all big eaast.
Jonny Flynn averaged 14 points a game 5 assists, and was the co-rookie of the year in the conference and played 40 minutes a night.
Here's a suggestion - actually watch games instead of looking at wikipedia, seeing SU with 19 wins and proclaiming their guys as underachievers.
Whoa, am I glad you straightened me out. I have indeed watched a lot of games, including Syracuse games which they rightfully should have won (Georgetown, Pittsburgh to name a few).
And here are my non-expert completely ignorant opinion as you say. Flynn and Greene are great athletes, but are not good basketball players. You can spout off stats until you turn blue in the face, if it doesn't translate into wins, or helping your team win, it just doesn't matter. Flynn is a great slasher, so what does he do? Shoots from the oustide, missing something like four threes in a row in that loss to 'Nova. Greene is a tall athletic player, and what does he do? Plays on the perimeter jacking up threes. If they go in, awesome, you're blowing out Georgetown at home, but if they don't, you get a game like Villanova, getting reamed in the most important game of the year. You think it's not underachieving that they got blasted by a marginal tournament team in a game they had to have? I'd certainly call it that. But if you don't want to, you're welcome to rush the floor next time you beat USF, or something.
Someone brought up Roy Williams, so how about we talk UNC if you want to talk injuries. Arguably their best player (Ty Lawson) missed significant time, and their backup PG was out 3/4 of the season (still out). And they're, what, ranked first?
Players that are basketball players on that team: Harris and Onuaku.
But it's not entirely their fault, it falls on the (ta-da!) the coach. His ridiculous zone is a way of playing lazy defense, especially this year. It's not playing the zone that's the problem, it's playing only zone that's the problem because you're relying on the ineptitude of the other team, rather than creating your own circumstance.
I didn't bring up Roy Williams, although the last time they faced each other Jimmy B got the better of that one.
The fact that you don't think Greene, Flynn or Devendorf are good basketball players tells me this debate is going nowhere. Do they have flaws - sure. But to say "Flynn and Greene are not good basketball players" just isn't true.
As far as injuries, Harris was the ONLY guy of their seven man rotation that played DI basketball last year - the only one. Carolina has a little more in the cupboard - this year all teams did.
Go put on your Carolina Blue and enjoy, better days are ahead for the Orange, Boeheim will lead them back, you don't have to worry about it.
I would also like to note that I don't have insane Orange blinders on - here's a post I wrote yesterday on the state of the Syracuse program:
http://idiotsonsports.blogspot.com/2008/03/syracuse-basketball-2007-08-year-in.html
this is not the dumbest thing I have ever read. But it is in the team picture.
And one of those years they were "irrelevant" they were 27-6, 11-5 in conference and finished tied for the second best record. the conference RPI was second in the country that year.
Fire him, you kidding? Look what happened when we chased an inferior Paul Pasquolini out the door.
I love how you refer to your three-paragraph post as an "article." I guess you were right when you said you suck at sports. Irrelevant in the conference? That's interesting, considering they lost a handful of games in conference by five points or less. And beat No. 1 G'town. I guess you don't really know what irrelevant means. Put this team in any other of the five major conferences this season and they are at least a 6 seed in the NCAAs. And Yes, Cuse does have a number of H.S. All Americans, so I guess the best players in the country still think Boeheim can coach. You should consider going Heath Ledger on yourself.
I'll give you this, the last line in your comment was fabulous, it received a roaring laugh. The rest of it, however, is just pure garbage. I'm not going to rehash everything I wrote, because no matter how many times I type it, you seem to ignore it.
But, just to clear up, this is the same team that didn't leave the state of New York before December, right? The same team that lost to OSU, a team that isn't very good, and the same team that lost to USF. That Syracuse?
I love that "if they were in a different conference" argument, and "if the close losses were wins." Well, they're not, they count as losses all the same. By that same Logic, OSU would only have a handful of losses and be a 2 seed. Did Syracuse wake up in the BE yesterday? Or have they been there for multiple years. They've been 5th once and 9th twice, and you're arguing about their relevance.
And sir, if you're depending on the brilliant decision making of 18 year old boys as your main argument for good coaching, this argument is over.
Jonny Flynn was not expected to be a slasher when he came to Syracuse. He was expected to distribute the ball to guys who could shoot. He was considered a true point guard that has somewhat of a scoring touch. Not having the two best shooters on the team changes his role DRAMATICALLY. When Devo was playing, Flynn wasn't needed to be a key scoring option, but he was a point guard.
Yes, I think Boeheim can struggle with some in game coaching at times, but the fact that he won 19 games with seven players, four being freshman, one a goofy looking Belgian JUCO transfer, a sophomore athletic freak that hasn't quite found his role yet, and a center that missed a year after averaging what was it like 6 minutes a game his freshman year? is pretty damn impressive.
You must be one of the 10 million Syracuse.com commenters that call for Boeheim's firing after every freaking loss.
I'd hate to tell you this, but I'm not a Syracuse commenter, I'm not even a fan. I'm not affiliated with Syracuse in any way shape or form, I just call 'em like I see them.
Also, I'm not calling for Boeheim's firing, I'm just bringing up the fact that there have been less than desirable results as of late.
Great article. It's in the top 10 of worst things I've ever read. Congratuations you cracked the list. Russinator is RIGHT ON! You obviously are oblivious to what's gone on this year. Boeheim's rotation is four freshman, a JUCO transfer, and two sophomores including one who missed all of last year. To get that team on the bubble is an accomplishment considering that this isn't the MAC or the MEAC or America East but the Big F****ckn East.
With this young team - they beat Georgetown and they beat Marquette.
If you don't see Devo's value you are insane. A guy who can shoot the three and go to the hoop at anytime with either hand is invaluable.
You hate on Greene and Flynn - but you do realize they are freshman and very good ones too who are being asked to shoulder the load with Devo and Rautins out.
Flynn had to be morphed into a scorer when Devo went out. And don't discount the fact that without shooters to spread the floor teams started doubling AO which he wasn't used to.
Oh, I'm sorry I'm getting into basketball speak there and you know about as much about that sport as I do about the mating habits of African wildebeest.
Watch the games - this team will be great next year. Last year they WERE ROYALLY SNUBBED. 10-6 in the Big East and you don't get in is a joke?
Call the year before a fluke? Fine. Then I'm calling the Vermont loss a fluke. You can't have it both ways. If GMac can hit a three vs. Cincy then Sorrentine can nail 35 footers.
The year after the 'chip - this was a Sweet 16 team. They could've been a Final Four team sans Melo if Edelin didn't quit.
The following year - it was a terrific team. Warrick was BE POY. Vermont happened. That's the NCAA tournamnet for you. But they did wipe the floor with the BE in the tourney. I forget that doesn't count for jack.
You are so off your rocker it's downright disgusting. Seriously learn something about the sport and the team before you spout of ignorance.
Irrevelant in the Big East? Yea, OK. Irrevelance doesn't land you the #2 recruiting class in the country.
Fire Boeheim? Please. Get a clue.
No need to worry everyone...I just realized there is a completely logical explanation to the madness that was posted on this blog: Hermano's identity is none other than the credit card stealing, heavily hair gelled ESPN personality (or lack thereof) Doug Gottlieb.
Doug, surely you realized your not supposed to steal your roommates credit card. You got kicked out of Notre Dame and the Big East, arrested & convicted of fraud, never made a Final Four, couldn't make it in the NBA, and now at the age of 32 (when real basketball players are in the middle of their careers) you sit in a studio with men twice your age and critique people who actually participate in the sport. Has anything in your life gone right?
Doug, it's time to get over your vendetta against Boeheim and Syracuse. Sure, you've been publicly humiliated multiple times by Jimmy B. But lets be honest, you brought it on yourself.
As for your online identity hermano...I think he needs to take an extended siesta from the sport of blogging to get his head straight.
I don't know how to take that, but I'll be him if I can get his money. I would guess his life isn't so bad. It'll surely be a step up from blogging in my mom's basement.
You didn't refute any argument, but at least it was really funny. I had a good time reading it.
The Cuse will be back in "Da House" next year with a very solid starting five and a bench that will actually be able to contribute; all led by a Future Hall of Fame coach. The bench was the demise of this year's squad - with two more capable bodies they easily could have posted two to three additional wins and made the NCAA tournament.
It will be interesting to see how many teams that will attempt to emulate the JB zone with the three point line moving back next year.
You had better run upstairs now Hermano, Jimmy B is giving it to your mom Peter North style...
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